Ep. 56: Jill Vyn: Who Are You When You're Not Producing?
Jill Vyn thought she was the mortar holding everything together. Then the nonprofit she co-founded collapsed, her body started breaking down, and she had no choice but to look in the mirror. This conversation is the kind that makes you pause mid-listen and think, "Oh. That's me."
A former nonprofit co-founder and now a leadership and burnout coach, Jill shares what happened after her co-founder passed away and she spent a year and a half holding the entire organization together on her own. When it finally closed, she describes it as "a ton of bricks" falling, followed by a wave of shame, guilt, and the unavoidable realization that how she was showing up professionally was identical to how she was showing up personally: people-pleasing, over-functioning, avoiding conflict, and running on empty.
What makes this episode stand out is that Jill does not stop at the professional burnout. She goes back further, to parental burnout, standing in her kitchen feeling like she was about to collapse, wearing a mask so heavy she describes it as her "insides not matching her outsides." The turning point was not her own breakdown. It was watching her seven-year-old daughter and fast-forwarding to what life would look like if nothing changed. That moment cracked something open.
Jill also opens up about what happened earlier this year when her body started refusing to cooperate: depression, anxiety, physical symptoms she had never experienced, and the realization that she was in the middle of a perfect storm of menopause, empty nesting, seasonal affective disorder, and business growth all at once. Her doctor told her, "Life's too short to not feel good." That line landed. She paused, got support, and found that slowing down did not stop things from moving forward. It actually created flow. This is an episode about what it really takes to stop before the crash, and what it looks like when you finally do.
What You'll Hear
✔️Jill describes the moment the nonprofit she co-founded closed and why the relief she expected never came.
✔️She shares the question she posed in a recent workshop that stopped a participant cold: "Who am I when I'm not producing?"
✔️Jill walks through the five-step pattern Laura identified live in the conversation, from recognizing the push to learning it is safe to slow down.
✔️She explains why "steady does not mean stagnant," using the image of a boulder in a river that holds its ground while everything rushes past.
"Life's too short to not feel good."
- Jill Vyn's doctor, shared by Jill Vyn
If this episode hit close to home, do not wait for your own crash moment. Here are two ways to take the next step:
Book a free 20-minute clarity call: https://www.leadintact.com/freeclaritycall
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Links and Resources
Jill Vyn's website: https://www.jillvyn.com/
Jill Vyn on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@JillVynCoaching
Jill Vyn on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jillvyn/
Jill Vyn on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jillblakemorevyn/
Jill Vyn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jillvyn/
The Pivot Point Podcast: https://www.leadintact.com/the-pivot-point-podcast
Lead Intact YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@leadintact
Lead Intact Freebies: https://www.leadintact.com/freebies
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You made the move, or maybe you're about to. Or maybe you're still in it, showing up, performing, delivering while something quiet in the background keeps saying this is not it. Either way, something has shifted and you can't unknow it. Here's what nobody tells you. The landing strip is a little rocky once you come down from the high of accomplishment.
There are moments of real excitement, real clarity like, "Yes! This is exactly where I'm supposed to be." And then night comes and the anxiety rolls in. The what ifs, the what am I actually doing? Not because you made the wrong choice by the way but because you're standing in the space between who you were and who you're becoming.
Done pretending this is enough. Done pushing through. Done ignoring the thing that keeps pulling at you. That's exactly where this podcast lives. I'm Laura [00:01:00] Dionisio, founder of Lead Intact and I've been exactly where you are. The corporate success that stopped feeling like success, the leap that was equal parts terrifying and necessary, the messy non-linear process of building something that actually fits and learning to trust yourself through all of it.
This is the pivot point. Real conversations about what's actually happening beneath the surface and what it takes to build a life that feels as good as it looks. Not just the wins; the attempts too. Because I'm not here to romanticize the journey. I'm here to show you what it's really like. Let's get into it
Welcome, Jill, to the Pivot Point Con- Contest. We're competing. No. Welcome, Jill, to the Pivot Point Podcast. welcome back, really, [00:02:00] because the listeners don't know this, but this is our second time, uh, together. It's just that the first was so good that the universe was like, "No, you're gonna do it again."
That's my interpretation of what happened. Thank you for making time to be here again. I truly appreciate it
a pleasure. I've been looking forward to this. And so much growth happens, over time, especially when you're an entrepreneur and you're building something new and you just, you keep growing. So what I would've shared two months w- ago or what we talked about two months ago has evolved, and it'll be really fun to see what comes out today
Yeah. All right.
And just like last time, Jill's a veteran at this point, I am gonna go ahead and read your bio just so our listener gets to know you better. I mean, I know you, and I think you're awesome. But just so my listeners know that, yes, Jill is really awesome, and, they can see why I'm excited to have you on.
Jill Vyn is a proud parent and former nonprofit leader who understands [00:03:00] what it is like to carry a lot while trying to stay steady. She works with leaders, entrepreneurs, and professionals who want to experience greater trust, clarity, and steadiness, especially during seasons of growth, responsibility, and change.
Her work is grounded in the belief that sustainable leadership begins with the relationship people have with themselves. Drawing on personal experience, Jill understands how easily internal pressure, over responsibility, and constant striving can become the default, leaving even highly capable individuals disconnected from their own clarity, capacity, and well-being.
Jill supports thoughtful, high-performing people who are carrying a lot and recognize that pushing harder is no longer the answer. A-freaking-men. They don't need more productivity strategies. They need a steadier way to navigate challenges, make decisions, and lead themselves while remaining fully engaged in their work and life.
We are for sure gonna dive deep into [00:04:00] that. Drawing from trauma-aware coaching, nervous system regulation, and deep inner work, spirituality, and practical leadership principles, Jill helps people release unnecessary pressure, strengthen self-trust, and cultivate the presence and resilience needed to lead with greater clarity, confidence, and ease.
Thank you again so much for being here twice.
I am s- so happy to be here with you. This is fun
Yeah. And so let's just dive into it. When I read your bio the first time, th- this is what really hit me, like straight in the feels. You talk about how thoughtful, high-performance... Can you hear the ambulance, by the way?
I wasn't sure if it was in mine or yours.
Yeah, we'll just, we'll just let that... It's just the Brooklyn soundtrack. Okay, let me just let it pass. It's New York. Okay.
The part about your bio that really got to me, just because I have been in my own growth as a leader myself, is how you talk about thoughtful, high performing people who are caring a lot and recognize that pushing [00:05:00] harder is no longer the answer.
And I wanna dive deep into that because in the beginning of my own journey, and I'm sure a listener is like, "Yes, I recognize it, but the only thing I know how to do is to push harder, and the only thing I know how to solve this, only way I know how to solve this problem is more productivity strategies."
So can you talk a little bit more about that?
Yes. The pushing harder I'd love to hear your perspective on this, but it feel, it's just cultural. It's so cultural. It's ingrained, generational around us. Everyone is pushing harder. I have been that person too, and I still am that person from time to time. I've learned is that it's this really beautiful part of me that has helped me get to where I am today, but it's not gonna help me get me and allow me to expand where I want to be in the future
Has been a [00:06:00] very interesting process in unlearning r- realizing and reminding my body that I am safe to slow down, that
Trust the process, I can trust my journey, and I can trust that things are working out for me because they have in the past. And it-- And when I think back to experiences now that I'm shifting these patterns and becoming more aware of these patterns, I realize most beautiful things in my life happened when I wasn't trying, when I was just being me, or I was listening to some voice or some intuition that said, "Go this way and not that way." you follow it, and you listen. And so it's been a lot of unlearning. It hasn't been always comfortable in that process, but it has been a gift to be able to recognize the power of letting go
What I'm thinking [00:07:00] about... Okay, so first I just wanna reflect back. I have, like, a five-step process based on just what you said, and the first is to recognize that that part of you that was, like, a go-getter, however you call it, um, has been really helpful in getting you to where you are. And then the second step is just being radically honest that it's no longer serving.
And then the third is unlearning, and I wanna go deeper into these steps. The fourth is to remind yourself that it's safe to slow down, and the fifth is trust that it's gonna work out. And I love that you said you started to think about in your own life, basically you were gathering evidence when things worked out when you trusted that it was gonna work out.
I am thinking of who I was just, like, five years ago, and probably who you were, and I probably was one and, like, two-ish. Like, I recognized something was off, and it was in the form of, like, breakdowns. Like, I have found myself on the floor crying over an email, you know? And I was [00:08:00] just like, "Something is off."
But it was hard for me to be honest that it was no longer serving, because I look around and I'm like, "But the awards, the bonuses, the whatever."
There Are external factors showing that this is the only way for me to be successful. So I'm curious what your take on it. For a listener who is right there, what would you say to them?
I ha-- I'm gonna share personal, personally, and I know this is true for some of my clients as well. But I'm gonna share, for me, it was unavoidable for me to acknowledge and get... And radically accept what the behaviors or the ways I was showing up were not serving me or the people around me. It's when couple years ago, I was, I co-founded and co-led a non-profit. A decade later, we got to this place where I was pushing and just trying to do it all, trying to carry it all. My colleague and co-founder, he had passed away a year and a half before that, so it was a year and a half of just I'm [00:09:00] gonna hold it, and my arms are up holding it.
I had colleagues who said, you're like the mortar for this organization." And I thought, "Oh I'm the mortar. I'm so important," right? This ego of yes, this can't exist without me. And so if you're listening and you're finding you're saying like, "This business can't exist without me. This organization can't live without me.
This," whatever insert, "can't live without me," that's a great moment to say, "Wait a minute. Is that sustainable?" Is that sustainable for you? Is that sustainable for the organization or the business or whatever you are supporting? Is that sustainable for anybody, and is that a model that you can maintain going forward? I didn't realize this. I just knew I was worn out, I was burned out, trying to do everything, figure everything out, and I was in pla- positions where I was taking on roles and skills that I didn't have. Like I, I could do 'em, I could get by, but I really... They weren't my zone of genius, [00:10:00] right? So when you're carrying everything, there's, a zone of genius is like that thing or two things that only you can do.
Maybe others, uh, can relate to that, like you're just doing everything. And what ended up happening is that the organization has since closed. And when that realization came that we weren't going to make it, was like a ton of bricks just fell on me, and everything that I was trying to hold up fell, and I felt all this responsibility and all of this shame and all of this guilt and all of these feelings, and it's like an ego gut punch, right? And at the same time, it was like I had this moment of awareness that, " Wait, Jill. The ways that you're showing up in your personal life-" And the ways you're showing up in your professional life, they're oddly and distinctly similar. So these people-pleasing, these over-caring, these, just taking everything [00:11:00] on and avoiding conflict or, not setting boundaries and not having self-care or self-compassion, knowledge, right? I realized that because of those behaviors, because of those patterns that had kept me safe, kept me protected, kept me important, and in all aspects of my life, when it came crashing down in the professional space, I was like, I didn't have a choice. I didn't have a choice but to put up this mirror and say, "What... How have you been showing up? What responsibility do you have right now for this organization and for the closing of it? And what responsibility do you have to shift in your own life so that you can heal and grow and expand into whatever's next?" And so it-- I learned it the hard way. And because of that, I believe very strongly in supporting people before the crash. And [00:12:00] also, I have talked to clients and I, and who have been in burnout, who have experienced burnout. Just when just because my time with the organization was done didn't mean I all of a sudden felt better. because the stress or everything that I was carrying was no longer part of my life didn't mean that I could feel good and happy.
And what I'm finding when I work with people is that there's a recovery period from that break, from that moment,
anxiety attack, or from that, the moment where you're like, "I can't continue," whether you choose it or not. It has taken, I would say, a good year and a half to to come back to feeling energized and hopeful and more consistent joy in my life.
And that's both through my own personal work and journey, but also with the support of coaches. So I really don't want people to get to that place. I want to help people [00:13:00] before they get to that place, when they're recognizing these patterns and these like starting with that awareness piece.
And then the radical honesty, it's a really great place in the moving into that unlearning and that safety to slow down and trust. I believe those all flow together. That's where coaches come in. That's where you come in with your clients. That's where I come in with mine and my community and my individual clients and because unlearning and relearning it's a process, and having support is just makes it so much more manageable and easier
Can attest to that.
Now I'm curious to talk about, you mentioned you wanna help your clients or those who are experiencing this before the crash, and you specifically called it the crash. Can you describe to us, like, what is the crash, and what might someone be feeling or experiencing before the crash?
In other words, like, how, how would someone recognize that they're on [00:14:00] this path?
call the crash. For me, it was something outside of me, it-- where I just couldn't, I didn't have an op- opportunity or an option to continue or not. have also, we talk with people or we know people who have had to quit their jobs, who have had to pivot roles, right? Or have had to retire. People who, because of mental health, because of physical health, and to me, that's a crash. When our body is saying, " No more. I can't take this anymore." And again, I, if I could share something, my own personal. I really draw a lot from my personal experience it was just, we had recorded the f- when we recorded and then we tried to reschedule, and there was a time where I canceled because I needed to pull back and take a break. I was starting to feel physical symptoms, which I've never felt before with stress, and it was this point where emotionally [00:15:00] and physically my body was resisting me, and I had to listen. Because if I...
can you explain what that means? Your
Emotionally and physically your body was resisting
Emotionally, And I don't-- I'm gonna share this not because I believe we have to have a why. We don't... It's not really always helpful to understand why we're feeling, to intellectualize why things are happening. But for the first few months of this year, I was starting to feel first down. Then I got to a place where I felt depressed, and it was difficult for me to... I got out of bed every day, but it was like, "Jill, just you've gotta get up and get out of bed." And I have experienced depression a couple decades ago, and so I was feeling these feelings of just complete being drained.
I also was feeling anxiety, like this this hum or this discomfort in my [00:16:00] chest. And then the thoughts. Thoughts of I'm not worthy, what am I doing? Why am I... like verging on suicidal thoughts and recognizing going on? My, my brain is taking over in some way. So that was happening. At the same time, starting to... And I'm not sure exactly what reflux feels because I haven't had that, but I believe I was having this feeling of reflux, like just this pain going up the center of my body. And I knew that I was putting like un- like pressure on myself, but I was f- I felt this pain, this physical sensation that I've never felt before.
So both things were happening. And all of a sudden I realized, "Hey, Jill, you've had a very kind of an interesting few months." One, it's I'm in Michigan, it's really cloudy in the winter, and I've experienced seasonal es- affective disorder. And I'm like, "Okay, that's one thing. That can be happening." Just g- just [00:17:00] trying, getting to a place of being more compassionate to myself of things will pass.
You know this, right? Life goes up and down, and that's part of it. And then I realized Jill, you also reached menopause." Oh that's interesting. Who knows what my hormones are doing. "And Jill, you're, you are a relatively a new empty nester, and your kids were just home for two weeks, and it was the most beautiful, connected time that you've had, as a full family in a while. A- and Jill, you're also expanding and growing in your business, and you're taking more like like action, you're doing things that are like pushing you out of your comfort zone." so I started to just pause and say, "Wait a minute. This is a lot." What if it's okay for me to ask, start asking for a different level of support? And so the ways that I supported myself, I was already working with my coaches, but I went to doctor, right? And thankfully, and this doesn't [00:18:00] always happen, my doctor was understanding and said, let's help you here. Let's help you navigate this." I started on hormones.
I started on other medication, which I sometimes resist. That's part of that, like that you've gotta push through, be strong, allow for support from medicines as well, right? There's that mind thing that can happen for some people. And I, but I got to this place of I didn't have another choice. I didn't, I just didn't. And my, my doctor, she says, " Life's too short to not feel good." And I thought, what? You're right. Life's too short to not feel good." And so I wish that I had sought help sooner for all these different things, these per- like I call it the perfect storm of things, but I didn't fully realize it.
And I'm a coach, right? I didn't fully realize, but that's why we're in community. That's why we listen to ourselves. That's why we say we're worthy of not [00:19:00] feeling like shit. Excuse my language. This isn't how we have to live our lives. And so what happened around that same time is I said, "I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause. I'm gonna pause, and I'm gonna only do the things in my life that I believe are gonna really move the needle, whether it's in my business or whether it's in my relationships." And I did that. And this is where I say then we start to see evidence of the pause working, is that when I paused, I kept specific meetings.
I'm talking just about business. I kept specific meetings, and I went to them, and opportunities opened up. And I went to one, and an opportunity opened up. And I'm not saying that these opportunities wouldn't have happened otherwise, but I was in a state of mind and presence to really prioritize me as a human, as a woman, a business owner, and to prioritize the [00:20:00] relationships i- within my business that I wanted to give the most attention to.
So I wasn't... 'cause I was already feeling distracted. And then in doing that, like this call this conversation, other conversations that I knew I would be more able to be present, align, like just fully engaged and honoring of the time we spend together if I postpone them just a little bit. Not one person cared. Not one person questioned,
True
And then I was able to be present with my family and my daughter and my son-in-law as we helped them move cross country it was this lifting From me and things were still moving, and it felt like flow in a way that I, my... I f- physically I feel better. I don't feel this anymore. I, it took a little bit, but I think I paused s- soon enough, right when I was feeling these, and listened to what my [00:21:00] body was telling me, that I re- I just feel like I reassured it "I've got you. I'm listening. I'm gonna slow down, and things are still gonna expand."
I love that. I'm gonna slow down and things are still going to expand, and it sounds like they have been expanding.
Yeah
Yeah. And also what I love is li- thank you for, first of all just being candid and sharing your personal experience. I think it's important for the listener to understand that there's the external crash that could happen, losing your job, retirement mental, physical health.
It is just forcing you. And then there's the internal crash. I guess mental and physical is more the internal crash. But I, I think it's important that you mention to the listener what your experience is because I, I think in this day and age, it's easy to be like, "Well, doesn't everyone feel drained and have anxiety?
And, you know, isn't it normal to have acid reflux?"
Unfortunately, people believe it is. I don't believe it has to be normal. I don't believe [00:22:00] that we have to accept that. And
I also have worked with people, clients who have experienced, just like I have, burnout in more than one area of their life
Yes.
Speak more about that because that was one of the things that I remember from our past conversation, that I was just like, you were burned out in a, in your personal life. So please share more about that
I have, I've Googled it since. Is this a thing? Parental burnout. I was the primary st- primarily stay-at-home mom trying to do it all, trying to build a business, trying to do this and this, and not allowing myself to be fully present and allow being a mom to be enough, right?
Enough.
I've gotta do more. I gotta be more," as if being a mom is not enough. If you're a stay-at-home mom or if you're a working mom or parent, you know it is enough. And then so this was before I started with the nonprofit, and [00:23:00] I would remember standing in the kitchen on many occasion and just feeling like I was gonna collapse. Just collapse. And my k- our kids are, they're beautiful kids. They're just... They didn't have their mom the way that they needed in those moments. I would, oh, I would hold it in, and I felt so many times that I called it like there was this, like my insides weren't matching my outsides. the way I showed up wasn't matching my, I was actually feeling, and this mask I wore it was a lot of, it took a lot of energy. Um, and we wear masks, and yet can sense underneath those sometimes, and you can for sure. And I would just say I'd feel like there was this, I'm feeling crabby from the inside out.
It was just like... And I wasn't able to fully be, Fully present. And,
and yet I'm high functioning, high capacity, and made it through. Yes, and [00:24:00] we've shifted so many things. I can... That's a whole nother story. But as a family we shifted patterns that as kids my, my husband and I, patterns of you've gotta push, you've gotta do all these things, but we...
Or parents have the authority. Through this journey, our kids have voice, our kids are so respectful, they have so much empathy. They understand what it means to not be your best and still continue to work on growing and taking responsibility. And how many... I don't know age exactly all your listeners are, but say I'm in, I'm 51, and I didn't hear a lot of apologies when I was, from my parents growing up.
I didn't f- hear a lot of, "How are you?" When, like some families did, and they were so fortunate. But it was more of this, "Keep going. your role. Keep pushing through. That's how you get [00:25:00] attention. Good grades, great in athlete, great as an athlete, working," whatever it is, right? And we shifted that.
And for me, it was also this moment of breakdown, but it wasn't my own. It was witnessing our, one of our daughters who I thought, I think she was maybe seven, and I thought, "Gosh if we don't change something," I could see fast-forward how difficult her life was gonna be as a teenager. And so in that moment, and instead of...
She was never the problem. She was never the... I, that's when I decided that I needed to get help. I needed to be, how can I as a parent show up in this family healthier so that I can be solid and I can be a foundation and that net for our kids as they grow up? So there was a breakdown. It wasn't my own in that case, but I still witnessed it, I [00:26:00] still felt it, and I still knew that I had to make a decision. And I believe that your listeners, as they're listening, know if like you just know when you're at a decision point
And I also want to reflect back, and I was gonna ask you a question of like, 'cause I'm, I'm thinking of my listeners who are moms, and actually a lot of my friends have said this who are moms. "I don't have time. I can't even go 10 minutes without a kid knocking on the door, like trying to get to me.
It's all on me." And I was gonna ask you, so like what would you say to that s- ' cause mom guilt is very real, it's normalized, right? As if, but normal does not mean healthy. And what I love about what you said, you answered my question without me having to say it, is your motivation wasn't because you, that was the right thing to do.
Your motivation was you were looking at your seven-year-old and you saw, fast-forward, if you didn't change, how it would impact her. So to the moms out there, I think that's an [00:27:00] incredibly powerful motivation to take the time, even if it's two minutes, whatever it is. Um, I do want to, uh, switch it up a little bit because I love that you said earlier how you noticed that how you were showing up professionally was also how you were showing up personally.
So can you talk to us about, you talked about the personal burnout and then later the professional burnout. What are some of the similarities that you've seen in both areas of your life?
Yeah.
Can I f-- I'd love to first respond a bit to the mom.
Sure
it's interesting, I just had a conversation with my husband yesterday, and he is in corporate America, carries a lot, and, I, I know what it's like to live with someone. I also-- I know what it's like to be someone who's experiencing burnout.
I also know what it's like to live and be the spouse of someone who's living with burnout, and neither place is enjoyable. when he was [00:28:00] reading, I have this upcoming training that I'm gonna be doing, and it's called Lead Without Losing Yourself. he was reading the bullet points, this is for," and he said, "Wow, so many of those are me." And then he said, "But I don't know if I could take time to go to something like
that's exactly what I just said.
when you said that, I thought, "This is relevant for s- a parent. This is relevant for a professional, who may also be a parent." He's also a parent, right? And so I personally believe that you have this opportunity. I encourage everyone t- to sit for a moment when you do get that 10 minutes, or maybe it's two minutes, or maybe it's as you're going to sleep, and imagine yourself fast-forwarding. If everything stays the same, how will I feel about whatever's going on in my life in six months from now? We used to do this when our kids were babies.
if we continue and [00:29:00] allow them to beg, at a store for something, if I support that behavior right now and tomorrow or the next week, what's gonna happen six months from now? They're gonna keep doing it. If I don't want that to continue, then I have to do something today that's different. So for me, when I, with my seven-year-old, or our seven-year-old daughter, and I just saw this emotion and all of these, I knew that this was a cycle I needed to break. I just knew. And so in that moment, I was like, fast-forward, whoa, I do not like where that's going. And in this case, it was years, but I I am not okay with that outcome. I am not okay.
I'm gonna do whatever I can to prioritize emotional mental health, and it starts with me. And so we make time for the things that are most important to us If you are sitting here and you're listening or whatever you're doing and you're [00:30:00] listening and you fast-forward, you get to now make a choice. And it's not always an easy choice, but you'll know what the choice is, because doing nothing is also a choice
Very true.
So
That's very true
I see that time and time again. I see that in my own life, I see that in my clients, where get to choose. We get to-- you're in this season too. You, as before we started recording, you're talking about this identity of becoming this who am I le- like the identity I'm leaving behind. I'd love to hear from you, Laura, like have made a choice about your identity and who you're becoming, and it's also a decision to leave behind, right? And so
Yeah. Well, I guess if I were to answer that, like, um, who am I choosing to become and who am I leaving behind? Uh, you know, it's easier to talk about who I'm leaving behind 'cause sometimes it's hard to imagine who you get to be. But the person I'm leaving behind is the person, the ... Just engineer Laura, you [00:31:00] know?
I have a lot of great skills from my 18 years in corporate, and by engineer Laura, I mean, like, the highly analytical one, the one that leans into planning right away, the one who is actually really excellent in future casting, and is too reliant on that future casting, not realizing that I can only future cast based on data I have, which means I'm only gonna go where I've already been.
So that's the identity that I'm letting go of, and the identity I'm stepping into is still, that's still a part of it, but it's like the engineer Laura has gone from driver's seat to passenger seat, or maybe even the back. And instead, it's just this fiercely confident Laura who goes with the flow, and that's so counter to who I've trained myself to be.
And what I'm discovering and what I've been questioning we didn't talk about this before the recording, what I've been questioning is, am [00:32:00] I really naturally good at structures and systems, or have I trained myself to be good at it? And what if my natural way of being is being in the flow? I'm probably gonna be- find that I'm somewhere in between, but that's the identity I'm stepping into now.
It's who is that version of me? Before I told myself, before I inherited the narrative that to be a planner, to be practical, is the safest way to navigate this world
And how, I love how you said part of you is in the backseat. Like it's still-- What a gift that you have a planner, this structure and all the, y- right? And allowing that part of you to support you in a different way rather than take over.
You asked about what are the behaviors in both profess- Control.
Control is one that I'm, how do we let go? How do we not control everything? And for me, in disguised as care sometimes. I hate to admit that, but right? Like how do I want people [00:33:00] to be?
That's sneaky.
don't
Yeah
one, and also people pleasing has been a big one of Not always being able to communicate clearly what I need, what's best for me that showed up with the organization, what's best for the as the organization if I was, like, the parent of the organization, right? What's best making those decisions. I find just kinda everybody to be happy. And sometimes as parents we do that too. And what I've learned is we get to learn how to be okay even when someone outside of us is not, and we let someone else navigate their emotions. for kids in particular, what a gift we can give them to be able to help them learn to communicate, learn to feel, learn to process while they're still at home, while they still have support, while they still have someone who's gonna be [00:34:00] there and put their arm around them. Because when we are people-pleasing and we're trying to allow, you know, either a colleague or a friend or a team member who we're not really being true and authentic to ourselves. And when we-- And we're not also We're also not allowing others to, to grow into their own gifts and
Identity in some ways, if that makes sense.
Yeah, personally and professionally, whether it's with your kids and also,
like, your, your colleagues. And, um, I love that you brought up that you noticed the pattern professionally is what was also showing up personally, and the reason I specifically wanted to ask you about it is because I, I think it's really easy to think that we can compartmentalize thing.
I, I have since realized there is... You're the same person, and what I love is, like, without even me saying what I believe, you just called it out based on your own experience. And I especially, like, my heart goes out [00:35:00] to moms who have not been in the field, like, in career for a long time. I've heard a lot, I'm sure you've heard this too, "But I haven't held a, quote-unquote, 'real job' for, like, 15 years.
Who am I?" Right? And the reason I think it's important to realize personal, professional, you're the same person, is if you have been the primary caretaker, you are a leader of that household, which means you're a leader no matter what position you find yourself in. So that's why. So thank you for modeling that without even me having to say, like, why I thought it was important.
I love what you just shared because it, it gets to the core of my work, is believe in yourself. And
I had a recent Break the Burnout Cycle w- training, and it was is the symptom. You recognize these patterns. It's the identity underneath. And I spoke with someone who attended the training.
Oh, and you actually went too. So I spoke to someone
I was
another [00:36:00] person, a gentleman who had been at the training, and he said, " I was able to shift my framework for myself and how much my worth is tied to how I'm showing up in work, how much I believe my worth is, and how that is and influencing how much I'm
Yeah. Wait, hold on. What was the ques- what was the question you asked, just so the listener can ponder that? How did... There was something you... It got, triggered my memory when you said about what that gentleman shared with you Who am I if... what was it? You had such a beautiful question. I wonder if I wrote it down
pull it off if it's that, if you think it's important
Just
Yeah. So let
to, to sit with
I don't have everything in my notes 'cause I go with like flow, but I--
Here it is. No, I took notes at your thing. This is... Okay. For the listener, this is from Jill's amazing workshop, recent workshop.
Who am I when I'm not producing?
Yeah
Yeah.
That's a good one
has been... That [00:37:00] was a question that I asked, who am I when I'm not a day-to-day mom and my kids went away to school? Who am I when I, my business is just getting off the ground and I'm not producing or the income flow that I had when I was working as a leader in the nonprofit? Who am I really? And that is a question that can rock your world
Yes. So why is it important, Jill, to answer this question?
so that we know our value regardless of what's going on around us. And if you are in a work setting or in a home setting, and it's so easy to get swept up into all the pressures of finances and expectations and what's going on with the kids, and are they-- do they have friends right now, or how are they doing in school, or how am I managing this team or, like all these things, like [00:38:00] what's gonna happen? if you get s- it's like you get swept up into this. And so if you know your
Yep
things can change around you with you taking it all on personally. And when we don't take it on personally, we know our value, we get to show up so much more steady. And when we show up so much more steady, actually people around us start to f- don't maybe know that that's happening, but they begin to feel it and sometimes shift.
Have you ever noticed when you're around someone who's calm and you're like, "Oh, I feel so much more at ease right now." Or if you're around someone who's anxious and they're not even saying anything, but you just feel that, and you start to feel imagine if you are so sure of yourself and it's like I was-- oh, I was leading a, I have a group I was leading, and there was one of the participants who shared, and I, there's a quote, and I don't know the quote offhand, but [00:39:00] basically, you're like the sky that's consistent, and these and the storm, or even the rainbows, they come and go, But the sky is steady. And so if you're steady in your life, because I was more steady in my life, I could be available in a different way for my kids and for their development and their growth. I can be a- available in a different way for my colleagues the team members, So you just don't get pulled with everything. I don't know. Is that-
I like that. What I wrote down just now is that, uh, 'cause I can imagine a younger me thinking, but steady means you're not moving or not doing anything. And I just wrote, "Steady does not mean stagnant."
No. Okay, let's-- When you said that I thought, think of a boulder in a river and the, like the current is so strong. Like the boulder is fierce, right? It's staying where it, it needs to stay. And,
and that current can go by it and it still [00:40:00] stays. It's doing work. I believe it's still doing work
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love it. And just to tie it back into something that you said earlier, uh, when the organization, the nonprofit organization you were working for ceased to, to be, you said external circumstances didn't actually make you feel better. And so that's why it's, like, really important to know what your inherent value is outside of the things you produce, whatever producing means to you.
Thank you so much, Jill. I feel like this take two is even, like, richer and more beautiful than the previous one that will never come to be because it didn't record.
Now, if the listener's just like, "Okay, I am all into Jill. I want to connect. I want to know about all the things she's doing," how can they find you?
Easiest way to connect is go to jillvinh.com. you can contact me through that way or Instagram @jillvinh and also on LinkedIn. [00:41:00] Same
Okay. And listener, if you're driving, don't worry. I'll, I'll put it in the show notes. You can easily find it. And Jill, I have a new question for my guests, and you're the first person that I'm asking this. You're like, "Oh, no, why me?"
c- the coffee shop.
I knew you were gonna be. I knew you were gonna be. But the whole point of the question is that it's just, it's for fun, and it's,
Okay
not that serious.
Okay. If I were to open the Jill Vyn book, And This Is Your Life, what chapter are you currently in in terms of what would that chapter be called, and where are you in the chapter? Like beginning, middle end?
Oh, that's deep
I know. I'm changing it up for season two
yes. Okay. The chapter is called "Opening My Heart to More." And specific part that I'm in is I've been very intentional about opening my heart to... This goes, we didn't talk about nervous system, but for me it's at the core of everything, that I am safe [00:42:00] to feel consistent joy So
now I gotta ask, was it not safe to feel consistent joy? And what does that look like so that the listener might be like, "Oh shit, that's me"?
Yeah. I don't... I believe I have Maybe always. Not always, but a l- when I have found myself bracing, things are good. What's gonna not be good?
Oh.
on the other side of this? and what is my capacity for joy?" I am in community, like you are in community with people who are showing us that the capacity for joy, there's no limit to it, right? I... It's something I want more of, and so why not? W- why not just... And it comes with being more present. It comes with just saying, f- you're completely safe in this moment." It comes with letting go of regret and letting go of fear for the s- regret for [00:43:00] the past and fear for the future, and spending a lot more time in the present.
And And to me, I've also known that I've protected my heart, and so I believe that I just get to say I'm safe to open my heart to more joy, and I get to look for evidence of it, and I get to be riding my bike or walking or sitting, and I just get to say, "Wow, how fortunate it is that I am here." And that's,
That's joy in a way that I haven't...
Gratitude, right? Gratitude and joy go together for me
Mm-hmm. I love that. And because you were prepared for the coffee shop question, I'll, I'll just ask it. If you were an item
Yep
in a coffee shop, what would you be and why?
exactly what I w- used to look for what I look for when I would travel, and I'd always find the handmade, clay beautifully imperfectly perfect mug that I can hold with both hands. So that's what I would be.
[00:44:00] That's fitting for your chapter
Yeah. I love it. Jill, thank you so much for making the time to be here again.
been so much fun. I just love it. Yes. So anyone reach out, I love to connect and see how I can support you on your journey.
Big thanks to Jill Vyn for being so open and so real in this conversation. This is exactly the kind of story I created this podcast for, because when you hear someone else say the thing you've been feeling but couldn't quite name, something shifts. If this episode resonated, share it with someone who needs to hear it.
You probably already know exactly who that is. And if you're sitting with something after this conversation, that feeling that good enough stopped being good enough a long time ago, I want to talk. Book a free 20-minute clarity call at leadintact.com/booking. That's where we figure out together what's actually going on and [00:45:00] what your next step looks like.
All of Jill's details are in the show notes. Go show them some love. And with that, I'll see you next time