Ep. 34: How to Stop Waiting and Start Owning Your Career with Michelle Schafer
What if the biggest thing holding you back in your career isn’t your skills, but the way you see yourself? In this episode, I sit down with career transition expert Michelle Schafer to unpack identity, ownership, and the power of networking.
In this episode of The Pivot Point, I’m joined by Michelle Schafer, career transition and leadership coach, author, and founder of Schaeffer Coaching. We dive deep into how identity shapes career moves, why so many high achievers underestimate their readiness for the next chapter, and what actually helps people pivot with confidence.
Michelle shares her own journey from financial services to not-for-profit to coaching, including how she navigated multiple restructures, reframed limiting beliefs, and built a roadmap for intentional career transitions. We talk about why you don’t need to wait for permission, a title, or a promotion to start owning who you’re becoming.
We also explore the real role networking plays in career growth, why it’s not just for job searches, and how small, human conversations often outperform online applications. Michelle offers practical reframes for common limiting beliefs like “I’m not qualified,” “I don’t have a network,” or “It’s too late for me.”
This conversation is honest, practical, and deeply encouraging. If you’re feeling stuck, quietly questioning what’s next, or navigating a pivot, this episode will help you see what’s possible when you take ownership of your career path.
What You’ll Hear
✔️ Why identity ownership matters during career transitions
✔️ How to stop waiting for permission and start claiming your next role
✔️ Common limiting beliefs that keep high achievers stuck
✔️ Why networking is 80% of an effective job search
✔️ How to reframe transferable skills across industries
✔️ A simple roadmap for navigating any career pivot
“The moment you name who you’re becoming, opportunities start to align.”
If this episode resonated, share it with someone who’s questioning their next move.
Download the Heart-Aligned Career Transition Starter at https://www.leadintact.com/freebies/heart-aligned-career, and if you’re ready to talk through your next move, book a free 20-minute call at https://leadintactwithlaura.as.me/free-consultation. You don’t have to figure this out alone.
How to reach Michelle Schafer?
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelleschafercoaching/
Website: https://mschafercoaching.ca/
Free offer #1: A free chapter from my book - sign up here: https://mschafercoaching.ca/cultivatingcareergrowth/
Order my book Cultivating Career Growth: Navigating Transitions with Purpose here:
https://mschafercoaching.ca/cultivatingcareergrowth/
Free offer #2: Download the reflection tool Career Focus Framework here: https://mschafercoaching.ca/gain-clarity-and-confidence-in-your-job-search/
Email me here: michelle@mschafercoaching.ca
Book a complimentary 30 min discovery call with me here: https://calendly.com/coaching-with-michelle-schafer
Proceed as if success is inevitable, because it is.
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You are listening to the pivot point where we unpack the defining moments that shift careers and lives. I'm your host, Laura Dionisio, a founder of Lead Intact, and my mission is to spotlight the raw real stories behind career pivots, the fears, the hopes. The messy middles and the bold decisions that follow if you're feeling stuck or quietly wondering what's next?
I hope these stories help you see yourself a little more clearly and inspire you to start moving toward your own dream life. Let's begin.
Laura D: Welcome, Michelle, to
Michelle: Michelle,
Laura D: I'm so happy to have you here. For those who don't know, Michelle's my first
Michelle: my first guest,
Laura D: don't know
Michelle: I dunno, personally,
Laura D: up until this, this opportunity to have her as my guest. So welcome Michelle. Thank you for being here.
Michelle: thank you so much for having me, Laura, and just, you know, at the time we're recording this, it's the start of a year, very exciting as we're focusing on the topic of, of transition and change.
Laura D: just so
Michelle: And just so
Laura D: to know Michelle A. Little bit better,
Michelle: Michelle,
Laura D: ahead and read her
Michelle: go ahead.
Laura D: amazing bio. Michelle Schaeffer
Michelle: Michelle Schafer is
Laura D: coach, author, and facilitator specializing in
Michelle: special in career transition and leadership.
Laura D: the owner and
Michelle: She's the owner
Laura D: Schaeffer coaching, empowering people
Michelle: empowering people to navigate career transitions.
Laura D: Okay. is passionate
Michelle: passionate about peace.
Laura D: their progress working with clients at all levels of an organization and
Michelle: an organization,
Laura D: federal and municipal
Michelle: and Municipal
Laura D: tech,
Michelle: High Tech, not-Profit and Financial.
Laura D: Michelle offers
Michelle: Michelle offers Coaching One and In
Laura D: is the proud
Michelle: and Is Proud author
Laura D: and number one
Michelle: number one,
Laura D: book,
Michelle: selling books,
Laura D: Career Growth,
Michelle: Career,
Laura D: Transitions With
Michelle: Transitions with Purpose, and was
Laura D: the
Michelle: recognized as one of the
Laura D: top coaches in 2024.
Michelle: 2024. So
Laura D: you here. Welcome,
Michelle: Welcome.
Michelle: Thank you. Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction.
Laura D: it's something else. Having it read to you, right? It, it hits something different.
Michelle: I know it's so true. Yeah. You know it, it's funny because I published my book in February of 2025, and still, even when you just read out, you know, author, I, I wanna look behind me. Who, who are you talking about? Oh, oh, you're talking about me. Oh, I get it. Okay. It still takes, uh, it takes a long time to just digest it all.
Laura D: love that.
Laura D: And you know, I know before the recording I said I was gonna ask a different question, but like that right there brings to mind the idea of identity and ownership of accomplishments that you've done. So talk more about how it's, it's been a year and it's still it still makes you think like, who me?
Laura D: Like author, like, talk to me
Michelle: I know.
Laura D: and how that plays a role in career transitions.
Michelle: Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's really interesting because my, my partner had been encouraging me to write a book for a while and I really resisted it. I thought, oh, what am I gonna say for a whole book? You know, I don't have time to do this. And then of course, when I realized that I do have lots to share and I can help lots of people, then that, that identity started to shift.
Michelle: Like even just by committing to a book and then starting to write a book. And it was really interesting because. Like that whole topic of identity is fascinating because, if we use me writing a book as an example, I was only ready to say I was an author when I published the book, which means, I've been writing and editing and marketing the thing for a whole year.
Michelle: But my writing coach was the one that said like, part way through the writing she said. You're an author already. You were an author. The moment you committed to this, you were an author the moment you started writing this. And so, in a career transition, like we can, start to like almost fool ourselves into thinking, I am not a project manager, or I am, not a, , relationship specialist or anything like that until we actually are in the role.
Michelle: But the reality is we have been doing that work in different ways for probably many, many years. Like I look at people who maybe eventually transition into project management. They didn't just become a project manager. They were, you know, they spent years leading projects of different sizes with different scopes, with different audiences and different impact points that happened long before.
Michelle: They actually got their certification to be a project manager. So you know that that identity is something that, you know, we need to think about and, and, you know, really own because the moment that we say I'm an author or I'm a project manager to use that example again, um, then like everything lines up for men.
Michelle: Then we can really start to intentionally seek out opportunities that are going to align with that identity and that identity that we want to strive for and evolve into.
Laura D: Yeah, that's huge. And what I'm wondering is what was the difference for you when you had the
Michelle: You had the definition of, I can't call myself an author and until
Laura D: versus once
Michelle: versus once your writing coach was like
Michelle: uh,
Laura D: Talk, talk to us. 'cause
Michelle: talk, talk to us, because I think
Laura D: is kind of like, I can
Michelle: I can, whether they.
Laura D: wanna write or they have a position they're trying to go for, like project management or whatnot.
Laura D: Like what was the difference between how you felt
Michelle: How you felt.
Laura D: you
Michelle: You
Laura D: identity shift and then
Michelle: did the identity shift? Yeah, I mean that, I would say the, the shift was quite pronounced because when I was still in a bit of that denial, like I'm not an author and I mean, I'll say the same when I, you know, kind of went through the paces to become a career coach. I mean, that didn't happen overnight and that didn't happen by accident.
Michelle: I mean, it happened through career transition. That, you know, the moment, the moment I really recognized for myself, and in the case of being an author, it took somebody to really shine a spotlight on that. That wasn't something that I recognized for myself. But once I, I really like, it was grounded in me once I own it.
Michelle: Once I recognized that, Hey, you know what, like my writing coach Jamie is right? Like I'm already doing this. And she even took it one step further, she said. Put it in your LinkedIn profile, like put it in your headline. Like, don't wait until the moment that your book is published, like you can call yourself an author today.
Michelle: And it just gave me so much pride. It really did. Like, I felt like my mindset shifted. I started slowly like talking about myself as an author to other people, sneaking it into. My LinkedIn headline where it wasn't there before and, and that just really solidified that identity. Like it wasn't, I wasn't just in transition.
Michelle: I wasn't an author in transition anymore, I was an author, and even though my book was not published yet, that's not what defines you as an author. It's everything that happens beforehand. Like I said, it's even just committing to it and then taking those. Like first steps to write, the first page, the first chapter, you're doing it.
Michelle: And when you're in a career transition, it's the same. Like you can start to relate to yourself as that thing that you're evolving into because you've got the transferable skills, you're starting to talk to people, you're exploring opportunities. When we call ourselves the very thing that we're evolving into, that's when the opportunities start to present themselves.
Michelle: That's when the alignment really is clear between what's important to us and where it is that we wanna go. And it's that, it's that intentionality. If we hide that, first of all, we're playing small. We're not actually recognizing or owning it or being proud of it. Um, the moment we start to play big and we start to talk ourselves in the way, talk about ourselves in the way that we want to evolve, that's when everything really clicks together.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Laura D: Oh my God, I just feel so inspired already. And I'm wondering for how would this apply? 'cause you gave some really
Michelle: Give some
Laura D: examples in great examples in terms of like your identity as
Laura D: an author.
Laura D: You had actual actions that you took, right? Like
Laura D: you wrote a page.
Laura D: page, how would this translate to someone who's looking for a,
Laura D: they really can't actually.
Michelle: can't actually necessarily call themselves that
Laura D: say,
Michelle: title, let's say.
Laura D: or maybe not. Like, what, what is
Michelle: Like what, what is your, your take on it?
Michelle: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really great topic.
Michelle: when we're talking about transition, it's not only about looking for new work somewhere else, you know, there's a lot of growth and evolution that can come from the organization that we're part of. So where, where this idea of.
Michelle: Owning our identity comes in is, first of all, it's reflecting on what is the work that really energizes us, you know, and what's the work that really drains us? Because when we even hold those things up against what we're doing, we can see where there's alignment and maybe where there's some misalignment.
Michelle: And so when we see that the work that really fires us up is in the form of. A next step. It could be a promotion, like maybe it's moving from an individual contributor to a leadership role. Maybe you actually lead committees and working groups and you wanna do more of that. Then it's about, you know, really reflecting on what are the things that I'm.
Michelle: Already doing that are in alignment to where I wanna move. So taking stock of the very specific achievements. What are the outcomes and results of those achievements? What kind of problems have I solved? What kind of things have I done to solve those problems? And what have the outcomes been? And when we, when we know what those are, when we have a career development conversation with our own leader.
Michelle: We can bring those forward. And also with the ask that we want to develop, maybe we want to develop some skills. We want access to some cross training opportunities. We want to know what it takes in order to get that promotion and ask for what it is that we need to position us really well when we own our career development.
Michelle: That's where things really move. The biggest mistake that we can make is thinking. When somebody else determines that I'm ready for that promotion, they're going to give it to me. Well, that's a wait and see approach. Like nothing really comes from that. But when we own it and we realize, you know what, like I've done what it takes to get to that next level, and I'm going to ask for that promotion, I'm going to explore that, and if there's something I still need to do, I'm gonna go and get it.
Michelle: We're driving the bus on our own career development. Yes, our leaders need to support that, but we need to own it and actually take steps forward to get us there.
Laura D: Mm-hmm. I love it. And like. What I really took from there, first and foremost, is ownership. Ownership of your career development, ownership of like if you already know the next position, role, career path, you want ownership of that. Like, author
Michelle: That like bother example.
Laura D: Right.
Michelle: Mm-hmm.
Laura D: and then I heard you. You didn't say the words, but like collect evidence basically based on your own experience. And then what I love is
Michelle: I love
Laura D: the confidence in which you said it, you were like, and then get clarity on the gaps. Like go ahead and talk to your leadership and say, what does it take or what would I need to do in order to have this position
Michelle: you know, one of the biggest reasons that I see people move on from roles and move on from organizations in particular is because they don't. Seem to think that there's any growth opportunities for them. and sometimes that happens because an individual was waiting for the leader to initiate a conversation and say, oh, you'd be a great fit for this particular opportunity, and you get slid into that.
Michelle: Of course the waiting and seeing as we mentioned, doesn't really get you anywhere. But, you know, taking control of that conversation and initiating it. Like what, what I see happen at like performance review time as a leader will say, you know, okay, we've got three minutes. Where do you wanna go with your career?
Michelle: Well, three minutes is not an appropriate amount of time. So. Do make the opportunity to, you know, get your leader's attention, like book them for a half an hour or an hour conversation and explore what those possibilities are because maybe in your head you're thinking, there's not a lot of growth opportunities here for me, but maybe there are, and it's just that you haven't asked the right questions and you haven't.
Michelle: Actually explored and, and seen what, what's around. So, you know, do take those steps before making the decision to go somewhere else because there could be some really great opportunities that you can take and grow into internally.
Laura D: you just brought to mind like, I have a, a, a friend of mine who exactly what you were saying, the feeling that she was sharing with me is something like,
Michelle: So.
Laura D: you know, I get a lot of
Michelle: You know, I get a lot of compliments that I'm going above
Laura D: And
Michelle: on my job.
Laura D: I don't understand. Like, why
Michelle: Understand like, why can't they
Laura D: like, why don't
Michelle: me? Like why don't they promote me and what I love about
Laura D: have to initiate. The conversation and
Michelle: conversation.
Laura D: available. And I'm wondering are there other career
Michelle: there other career development
Laura D: that I, I always, I almost called it
Michelle: almost?
Laura D: but I'm like, it's not a mistake, it's just
Michelle: It's not a mistake, it's just like a lesson that's not learned yet.
Laura D: development like improvements that people can take away based on your
Michelle: Take away
Laura D: like
Michelle: on your experience, like
Laura D: and like what you've seen?
Michelle: clients? Yeah, I think that's a great question. I mean, one of the things that oftentimes is not pursued, especially internally, is networking. I mean, networking is a direct contributor to career development because through reaching out and you know, just, you know, go and have coffee with people.
Michelle: I mean, it doesn't have to be complicated or formal, but, just go and have coffee and, ask people some questions like you can learn from other individuals about their own career paths. You can learn about, like maybe. Like a development programs that they were part of to get to where they are.
Michelle: You can also get connections to other people. You can also table what it is that you're looking to do over the next few years of your career so that people then can look out for you. And if they hear of other things happening within the organization, then they might, you know. The hope is that they'll actually let you know and say, Hey, I just heard that this job might be posted.
Michelle: You'd be great for it, and that none of those things can happen unless we take the step to reach out. Now, the reason why I say it gets a lot of like not a lot of airplay internally is because people think, oh, networking is for when I'm looking for a job outside of my current organization, and networking is something I don't really enjoy.
Michelle: Maybe it doesn't come naturally. Or you don't think that you can, sorry, reach out internally. Well, the thing is, those are all limiting beliefs. I mean, those are just ways of thinking that stand in our way. And I mean, the reality is. Yes, you can absolutely reach out internally. It is something that is oftentimes encouraged and people will make space for it because people want to help.
Michelle: And even the most senior people in an organization are human. They've had to network a ton to get to where they are. So, use and leverage the individuals that are within the organization. Um, and like, think about what those limiting beliefs are for yourself. If you believe you can't network. Well, let's just reframe that.
Michelle: Networking is about having conversation and we have conversations with people, oftentimes people that we don't know all the time, like in the line at a grocery store, the parents of our kids, friends somebody that we volunteer with, like we have conversations all the time. So yes, you can have those conversations.
Michelle: Yes, you can ask for help because. People want to help, but we need to ask and, but we oftentimes stand in our own way, so have the conversations and they can unlock a lot of, not just developmental opportunities, but even just to gain perspective and insights to support your career development. There's lots of rich stuff to be had there.
Laura D: then you just talked about limiting beliefs for somebody who
Michelle: Yeah.
Laura D: what that is and also how it can impact the way, like your career,
Michelle: Like your career,
Laura D: life,
Michelle: your whole life.
Laura D: it is
Michelle: If you dunno what it's or what you
Laura D: that?
Michelle: Absolutely. So a limiting belief is an assumption or a judgment that we have about something. Or someone. So how this will show up in networking is people are too busy. Um, so I'm not going to reach out. That's a limiting belief because we're assuming that the other person is busy.
Michelle: We're actually not even giving them a chance to say yes or no. We've decided for ourselves and for them. That they're not in a position to help us out. So when we have those beliefs where it is founded on some kind of judgment or assumption, it is limiting because it stands in our way of making any kind of progress or taking any kind of action.
Michelle: So, you know, the key then is. To really reframe that limiting belief, first of all, acknowledge that there's something that maybe you're harboring or it might have to do with past experience that is standing in your way. And then think about what is the reality here. So for somebody who thinks, oh, I'm not gonna ask, people are too busy, they're not gonna have any time for me.
Michelle: The recognition of, and the reality of reaching out is people do want to help. Oftentimes they just need to know how they can help. But I would say like 95% of the population actually does wanna help. When we recognize that and we realize that, oh my gosh, what is the worst possible thing that could happen if somebody either says no or doesn't respond well?
Michelle: Guess what? Nothing bad is going to happen. The sky is not gonna open up and people are not gonna run crying from the room. Like maybe you're just like in the same place, you're no further behind, but you could be very, very far ahead. So. There's all kinds of limiting beliefs that show up in a job search, um, and exploring a new career.
Michelle: One of the big ones that I hear is, I'm too old. It's too late for me. You've heard that as well. Hey, Laura. Like, it is never too late to explore a new path to pivot into something new to just see if maybe. The thing that's been waiting backstage in your life, like for your whole life, maybe this is the time for you.
Michelle: And you know, when we get past what those limiting beliefs are, we're just opening ourselves up to so much possibility.
Laura D: I love it. What are some other common limiting beliefs? And the reason I'm asking this is because from experience, I know that like,
Laura D: is called limiting
Michelle: the reason
Laura D: limiting thought
Michelle: beliefs and not limiting thought is because a belief is like something you really think is true.
Laura D: So it's like, it's
Michelle: So it's like, yeah, almost like wired,
Laura D: brain
Michelle: but it's wired under brain that it's true. So yeah,
Laura D: I really wanna
Michelle: like, oh, I really wanna know what my limited beliefs are, but they're not yet.
Laura D: What that is for them. What are
Michelle: But that is for them. What are some common limited beliefs you already gave us? Like
Laura D: networking, you know,
Michelle: Networking. You know, like at my father's.
Laura D: I don't have time, or I'm too
Michelle: For sure.
Laura D: that people can look
Michelle: Yeah. I mean, another one is, you know, I just don't have the skill. Like, I'm not qualified. I'm not qualified to move into this next role. I mean, that, that's not based on any kind of research or talking to people or anything.
Michelle: It's just, you know, you look at the job post and know I'm not qualified for that. Meanwhile, you know, that person might have a ton of transferable skills and lots of relevant experience. That certainly makes them very qualified. So I hear that a lot. I would say the, another big one, and Laura, you've probably heard this as well, is AI is filtering out my applications.
Michelle: That's why I am not getting an interview because AI is filtering out my application. Well, yes, if you don't have a targeted application where you are passing the check mark test against the job posting and actually meeting the criteria, that might actually be the case. But you can't use that as, as a reason and say, well, I'm not gonna apply because
Michelle: there's thousands of people applying for jobs and I'm just one of thousands and I'm gonna get lost in the shuffle. That's a big limiting belief that I hear now, and it is preventing people from applying for work. The other one that I hear and this one too, like when you explore the reality, it's just so not true, which is.
Michelle: I don't have a network of people who can help me. So where I see this happen big is, and I'm gonna use myself as an example here. So before I got into coaching, I was in financial services for 18 years. Then I was restructured and I lost my job and I went into not-for-profit. And after seven years, guess what?
Michelle: I lost my job there as well. So I was restructured twice, and that actually is what led to coaching for me. A good friend of mine planted a seed that this would be a great thing for me. When I started to do the research, I realized. Yes, my friend was very right about that. But my big limiting belief in my first career transition was when I was moving from financial services to not-for-profit.
Michelle: My belief was, well, I don't have anybody to help me get into not-for-profit, because my whole network is in banking. It's in financial services. And while that was true, I did have an extensive network after 18 years in financial services. Yeah, like. So many of my friends and like former colleagues were in banking.
Michelle: What I didn't realize was that every single one of my contacts knew. A ton of other people and any one of those other people could possibly be a not-for-profit. And so when I started to realize that, oh, okay, now that I've reached out to the three people, a not-for-profit, that I knew, that was it out of all of my contacts.
Michelle: Then I started to recognize, hold on. I, all of my contacts in banking know other people. I started reaching out to them and I started asking a different question. Who do you know in not-for-profit that maybe could meet with me? And then I was starting to reframe that limiting belief from, I don't have anybody in not-for-profit to help me to, I actually know tons of people.
Michelle: I just haven't met them all yet because they're connected to people that I know. And it's that idea of, um. I'm gonna borrow a saying from a, a friend of mine that I met in a networking group like years and years ago. He said, look through your network, not add it.
Michelle: And so you know that that really reframes the limiting belief because you realize that I actually do have lots of people who can help me.
Michelle: My network is bigger than I think it is because there are all these people. That are connected to people that I know. And then the door started to open for me. I started having conversations with people in lots of different areas of not-for-profit to explore possibilities and see what fit for me. But if I stuck with, well, I have nobody in not-for-profit to help me, I guess I just won't ask anybody.
Michelle: Guess what? My job search would've taken forever and I would've missed out on a ton of opportunities. So, um, so there are a lot of limiting beliefs, um, certainly that are, that are out there. And when we, the first step is acknowledging them for ourselves. Like, you know, we've, we've talked away through a few different ones when we acknowledge that, okay, this is something that's standing in my way.
Michelle: Then the next step is, how can I reframe that to allow myself to take the tiniest step forward? And so the tiniest step forward might come in the form of, I'm gonna ask this one person if they know anybody at X, Y, Z company that they could connect me with. Like that could be one tiny step forward. And then.
Michelle: If you're successful getting that conversation, you ask for another conversation and another conversation, and now all of a sudden things are a lot wider for you. But recognizing that we have those, those like roadblocks that are standing in our way is certainly step number one.
Laura D: I, it brings to mind one of my mentors like a few years ago told me like, will really emphasize the power of networking. Now for me, I love networking. I mean, I love talking to people, hence this podcast, right? But I feel like especially these days like networking because it is true that AI is being used to, screen things. Yes. You know, still submit your resume. But I saw a report in 2025 that one of the findings is that we're moving more towards networking as a way to
Michelle: As a way to find a new job and
Laura D: me,
Michelle: telling me
Laura D: tip,
Michelle: networking tip, not when you're just looking for a job. I love that you said that, by the way. I think people,
Laura D: have heard that
Michelle: I definitely have heard that a lot. They think, oh, I only need to network
Laura D: looking for a job. What
Michelle: a job.
Laura D: me was
Michelle: She had told me was like, any conversation you have
Laura D: you ask,
Michelle: somebody new, you ask,
Laura D: three other
Michelle: do you know three?
Laura D: people you can connect me with? And also here are two or three other people that I can connect you with.
Laura D: So do you have any other networking tips and get, can you talk about like. Actually the importance of networking. 'cause I know a lot of people who are deeply uncomfortable with the idea of reaching out.
Michelle: Absolutely. I mean, and, and you know, it's interesting, uh, when I, when I speak to clients about the importance of networking, like, like that, it's really like 80% of a job search strategy. Let's be honest here. It is the biggest part of a job search strategy is that human connection and building those relationships.
Michelle: I see. Eyes glaze over. I get some eye rolls and people will say to me, but Michelle, like, this comes easy for you, so that's why you're talking about it. But this is deeply hard for me, and I mean, the first thing I'll say to people is. Maybe networking is easier for me now. Fast forward many, many years of practicing, but when I was first in that transition from financial services to not-for-profit, and I had to network because when I was in banking for 18 years and I was at the same bank, people knew me.
Michelle: I had a reputation. I didn't really have to network or I didn't know how to, certainly back then, but it's really important to do that. So I say to people.
Michelle: First of all, it's, it's the reframing. When you're hesitant to do it, I help them see that they have conversations all the time.
Michelle: They even have conversations with people that they don't know. And when we normalize it. It becomes a, a bit of a weigh in. Certainly. The other part of that is, is preparing and you know, especially for individuals who are really uncomfortable, I say, you don't go in and just wing these conversations because the first question I get asked is.
Michelle: What do I do? What do I say? Like, how do I even do this? And I say, have a, a plan and a structure. Like have a strategy for your networking activity. Like, first of all, brainstorm the people that you want to reach out to, especially brainstorm and have a list of. What are those top companies that you want to explore with, maybe even work for?
Michelle: And who are you connected with to get you in? So like, you know, know who you're gonna reach out to. But then also, you know, draft a message. Like this is where, you know, talk to a friend or talk to a coach and talk about what your messaging is going to be like, because you don't wanna bombard them with the whole history of your life.
Michelle: Like you wanna be very strategic and say, you know, like. Yet you're exploring possibilities. Here's a little bit about you. You know, would they have some time to meet and here's how they can help you, like, have a bit of a call to action. So that's going to really encourage people to say yes. And then like, have your questions at the ready, like do your research.
Michelle: Like this is actually where AI can help you know, where you can consult, chat, GPT or Gemini or any AI. Say like, I'm meeting with this person for this purpose. Like what are some really great questions that I can ask that will get me some information that will inform my career exploration, inform my search, and when you prepare.
Michelle: I've had clients come back to me, Laura, and they say, I, these will be the individual, like QVI rolls and the glazed overlooks. And they, they did, some individuals actually said to me, I don't wanna do this at all. Like, this is just so uncomfortable and you know. Uh, you know, and that, but when you start safe, like start with a safe person.
Michelle: Like start with somebody that you know and build it. Like, I was really uncomfortable when I first started networking and I practiced, and I've learned a lot. I made mistakes along the way, like I made it about myself. I remember in the first meetings well. The big lesson there is like, make it about the other person.
Michelle: This is where the questions can be really helpful. And um, you know, one, one story just to illustrate the power of the transformation when you, when you get past the hesitation and you get into some action and practice. I was working with this client, it was about not quite a year ago, and she was looking for work and she was.
Michelle: Deeply resistant to networking deeply. So she spent her whole job search strategy, looking online, applying for jobs, not really getting a lot of traction. And like months went by and we would keep checking in and I would, just gently explore and, talk about, oh, like have you considered, reaching out to people?
Michelle: She wasn't ready for it yet. But then about six months into her job search, when she wasn't finding anything, she realized, she said, okay, now's the time. Like, I feel like I, I, I need to really give this a, a good go. So she started reaching out to people that she knew, and then she branched out from there.
Michelle: She asked them for conversations with people that she didn't know, but she prepared. She had her questions. She got some really good leads and I mean, fast forward about a month after she started doing that, she had two offers on the table, so she went from nothing. To having two offers. She had the best possible outcome.
Michelle: She had to make a decision against two offers and pick the best one for her. And I mean, you know, I, I still stay in touch with her loosely and just check in with her and she's loving her job. And she says, like, I realize now that networking actually widen the playing field for me. I know, but it took her being uncomfortable with it, it took her.
Michelle: Doing what she wanted to do with her job search to realize, you know, what I'm, I'm missing out here. And, um, you know how people can actually use networking too in a small, safe way. If people aren't feeling ready to have conversations, what they can do as an initial first step is for every job that you apply for.
Michelle: Look in your network and see who you know that works there or used to work there that can put in a good word for you. Get your resume into the right hands. And um, just even making that ask gets people far more interviews. And I actually had a client, Laura, who he applied online for this like job with a large national organization here in Canada.
Michelle: He applied online. He found out a few days after, and it was like an automated reply, basically, sorry, like we're not moving forward. At the time he applied online, he reached out to his network to see like, who do I know who's connected there? Well, he reached out to somebody.
Michelle: He wasn't really in touch with this person, but he knew that this person worked over at that organization. So he thought, what do I have to lose? I'm gonna reach out to him. Well, this person knew the hiring manager, and so connected him with the hiring manager. So about a week after he got the standard story, no go.
Michelle: We're not moving forward. He got a personalized note from hr. Guess what? We'd like to have you for an interview for the same job. He was rejected for. He had four interviews. Then it resulted in an offer. He's working there now and he loves it. And why? Because he reached out to get connected. If he didn't do that, he would've never had the opportunity.
Michelle: He would've been rejected. So all is to say, use your network, leverage those connections, reach out and ask for what you need.
Laura D: I love that. And I love
Michelle: Yeah.
Laura D: you mentioned briefly like when you went from banking to not-for-profit, how networking didn't come easy to you. So like, of course we see who you are now you reached out to me, right? This was your networking, right? So like, but. Before something like this was comfortable.
Laura D: Talk to us about that experience going from banking where you didn't have to network because everybody knew you by reputation to like, first of all, you're pivoting, like not-for-profit is very different from banking. So talk
Michelle: Yeah.
Laura D: through at least that transition.
Michelle: Oh yeah. That, that was a huge transition. And I, I credit a book for planting the seed for me. It was called Answering Your Call by John Schuster. And I remember reading it on a plane before I was restructured from banking. And what this book does is it goes through like decade by decade of your life to look at your calls.
Michelle: What have you been called to do? At different stages in your life. And when I strung it all together, I realized that, I mean, I've been a serial volunteer since the age of 12. I mean, I credit my parents for that. I mean, they laid that foundation and, and that was just part of our family fabric. Because I love volunteering.
Michelle: That's what led me to not-for-profit. And that book really helped me see it. So once I realized that. Then, then the clunky transition started to happen, like 18 years in banking to something I've, I had no idea about. And not-for-profit is huge, right? There's social services, there's health, there's arts, there's education, there's, you know, non-government organizations.
Michelle: Like there's so many different parts of not-for-profits. So, you know, the, the things that I learned in that transition were.
Michelle: Really the importance of having a destination and having a plan, kind of like going on vacation, although a whole lot less fun. I'd rather go on vacation. Right then look for something new.
Michelle: But the commonalities were, when you go on vacation, you need to know where you're going. Well, when you're in a any kind of career transition, you need to know what your target is. And so how I started to explore that was was talking to people. That's where the networking came in. Like I just started reaching out and talking to people about, well, what do you do?
Michelle: And how did you get there? And I had a fair number of people who were saying to me at the time, you would make a great fundraiser. If I went into fundraising, Laura, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation now, but I didn't know anything about fundraising, so I needed to explore it. So like, you know, cue the preparation with like, reaching out, um, having questions.
Michelle: I actually realized a few conversations in fundraising is not for me. It just wasn't for me. It just didn't align with the work that really energizes me. And, and it more aligned with the kind of work that drained me. So, so that helped me actually clarify, a path forward. I was able to take all of my transferable skills with like training staff and facilitating workshops and leading projects and building relationships and, and into a role where.
Michelle: Eventually worked with volunteers. But clarifying that destination was certainly step number one, like getting clear on my priorities and the kind of work I enjoy doing helped me intentionally investigate and explore and seek out opportunities that align with that. But then, the other part was having the plan.
Michelle: And so, I needed to figure out, okay, if I'm gonna look in not-for-profit, where are the places I need to look online? First of all. Who are the recruiters and the search firms that specialize in not-for-profit. And then the third part of the plan was, what networking opportunities can I carve out for myself?
Michelle: So, what are the not-for-profit organizations that I wanna be part of? I was strongly aligned with the cancer cause, just because it's in my family, it's affected friends. So I started like drafting my list of what are all the different cancer organizations. That I can get connected with.
Michelle: And then figuring out, well, who are the people in my circle and who are the people that my people know that can get me conversations there? And through the exploring the soul, searching the, determining what my priorities were and aligning that to, my next steps. I was able to find.
Michelle: Work in a large cancer organization. It was a large national cancer organization. And it was, it was bumpy because I did talk to a lot of people that I didn't have any kind of plan for the conversation. I was kind of expecting maybe they would lead that conversation. Guess what? Networking doesn't happen like that.
Michelle: You own the conversation. You need to, you, you need to bring that to the conversation and your questions. Show your curiosity and figuring out what I wanted to do and then actually taking the steps to figure out what opportunities were there and talk to the right people is what led me to that next step.
Michelle: And honestly, that led me to coaching as well because I was able to take that roadmap and apply it to exploring with coaching, like with my friend that told me years ago. You should get into coaching. And the time was not right, but then I lost my job a second time. That was like the universe opening it up.
Michelle: I remembered what I went through with those prior transitions, like figuring out what that destination was, talking to people to do the research, figuring out what's actually available. And you know, once you have that roadmap, it can really guide you through any transition. I worked with a client years ago that that went from owning a restaurant to construction project management.
Michelle: Those two things sound completely and totally different, don't they? It's like, what? How does somebody do that? but the roadmap is really the same. It was tallying up his transferable skills, being honest with himself about the kind of work that energized him, and what he wanted to move away from in restaurant ownership was the long night.
Michelle: The weekends, all of the stuff that comes in, like he actually didn't want to necessarily lead a team anymore, but he loved projects. That's what he did as a restaurant owner. Almost everything was a project. Launching a new menu becomes a project. Adding a a, an addition to your restaurant becomes a project.
Michelle: And. He talked to people, we reformat his resume to really position his transferable skills. He was able to move into something new and, and gain a lot of reward from that. So there's lots of steps involved and there's lots of learnings along the way too.
Laura D: I, what I love the most. I thank
Michelle: Thank you.
Laura D: sharing your like, personal experience and that of the person that you know that went from restaurant owner to construction manage, like
Michelle: I know.
Laura D: I think.
Michelle: Crazy.
Laura D: I think part of the fear, I have definitely heard this a lot
Michelle: Definitely this a lot and I
Laura D: like
Michelle: to
Laura D: like
Michelle: where like, it's like somebody has
Laura D: but they feel like,
Michelle: feel
Laura D: is
Michelle: like all I've,
Laura D: so I can't go to this.
Laura D: And what I really love about what
Michelle: I really love about what you said
Laura D: same roadmap. No matter what pivot you're doing I love your
Michelle: I love.
Laura D: skills and like switching the mindset of
Michelle: The mindset of like,
Laura D: creating a menu is project management, right? And so,
Michelle: yeah, absolutely.
Laura D: huge. I love what you said about clarify the destination.
Laura D: And I think my favorite thing about what you said is when you said you have to own the conversation, I, I'm getting a theme and a sense of ownership is huge in order to have career success or go towards where you wanna go, wherever that might be.
Michelle: Absolutely. I mean, we have a lot of people in our circles that, are very well-meaning, like when they, like let's say, somebody's lost their job or they're considering a new path and all of a sudden the masses want to chime in. You know, like, Laura, I think you'd be great, doing this and somebody else.
Michelle: To something like totally different. And you've got all these thoughts swirling in your head, and the reality of this is nobody's gonna tell you what to do. Nobody's going to hand that new job on a silver platter for you. You do have to go out and get it and, and is it possible? Yes, absolutely. It's possible at any age and stage in life, really, it is possible.
Michelle: I'm working with somebody right now, he's 71 years old. He just sold the, um, stake in his business, but he is not ready to give up working. So we're working together to try to figure out something new. So, you know, you, you can do that. But there is an ownership and does it take time? Yes, of course.
Michelle: Especially if you're moving. From like, you know, my client moving from owning a restaurant to construction project management, that didn't happen in a matter of days. I mean, that definitely took some time, partly because he had to reeducate his entire network to say. Okay, everybody. I don't want a job in hospitality anymore, even though that's all he knew.
Michelle: He bused tables for his uncle's restaurant when he was like 11 years old. Like he grew up in this business and this industry, but he had to do some heavy lifting with reeducating his network and letting them know, Hey everybody, this is what I want now and these are the kind of organizations I'm targeting.
Michelle: That takes some time and some effort. And yes, you have to own that. Nobody's just gonna send you something. Although sometimes magically it happens, you've probably heard those stories too, where, yeah, the job almost seemingly falls from the sky into your lap. But that is so, so super rare, and you still need to do the heavy lifting before to know what it is that you want.
Michelle: Otherwise, you'll never recognize that great alignment until you've done some soul searching beforehand. So. So, yeah, there's lots of actions to take when exploring a new path when transitioning into something new. The reward can be like priceless. Like I, I look at when I moved from financial services to not-for-profit.
Michelle: I loved the organization I was part of and I really loved what I did. I was restructured, wasn't my choice. The funding kind of, you know, decreased and so there, there needed to be changes. But I, I would say the same like moving. Moving into coaching. I mean, I joke with people that at age 46, I finally figured out what I was going to do when I grew up.
Michelle: And I mean, I'm 56 now. I mean, I've been in business coaching for 10 years. If you had asked me when I was like 30, would I own my own business and get into coaching? I would've said what planet are you on? Why on earth do you think I would do that? But it's just, I, I just have never looked back. I mean, it was just so grounded and I think, I think that's the main thing I take away even from my own transitions and the main message I share with clients, which is.
Michelle: You need to do the ground level reflection. You need to know what energizes you and what drains you. You need to know the kinds of organizations that believe what you believe in because you need to align yourself with those. And you also need to know what your non-negotiables are. What are your deal breakers?
Michelle: What are the things that would cause you to walk away from something if they weren't there? And when you take stock of those things. It can make the transition that much easier because even though it's hard to move into something new and it takes time, you're moving to something that's aligned and it's that intention and that alignment that is so key to finding something that will ultimately be fulfilling for years to come.
Laura D: Oh my gosh, Michelle, this has been
Michelle: This has.
Laura D: so good, and I'm sure the listeners are like, I want more of Michelle. So for those who want to connect with you, who want to read your LinkedIn articles and who just
Michelle: articles wanna,
Laura D: can people connect with you?
Michelle: absolutely. I mean, first off, my website is a great source of information, m schafer coaching.ca. You can learn about, me and my story, obviously my programs. You can book a free consultation with me, 30 minutes. You can also get access to a free chapter from my book, cultivating Career Growth, navigating Transitions With Purpose.
Michelle: And that will be a freebie for your listeners, Laura. They can all access a free chapter. Um, so that's a great source of information. LinkedIn certainly is another great place I post, I would say like. Five out of every seven days of the week about looking for work, exploring new careers you know, the, the limiting beliefs and the things that stand in our way and how to take action and reframe all of that, I post very regularly.
Michelle: So please follow me, reach out, like direct message me. Let me know that you heard me here and would love to have a conversation with you.
Laura D: this will all be in the show notes listeners, so
Michelle: yes.
Laura D: didn't have to like take notes. You know, we can continue listening and be
Michelle: It's all there.
Laura D: one last question that I ask all my guests is, you were an item in a coffee shop, what would you be why? So it could be an actual drink, a pastry.
Laura D: Somebody said the security camera. So like literally anything. Anything in the coffee shop.
Michelle: Oh my gosh. You know what I would say, I would say I would be the grinder itself because those beans, there's one common ingredient, those beans, but they get applied in so many different ways and they can create magic for many, many people it can be. You know, like, uh, it could be a latte, it could be a cappuccino, it can be like other types of beverages with different flavors to go with it.
Michelle: So, um, there's a lot of possibilities I guess, that can come with one common ingredient. Wow.
Laura D: I, I love it. I love it when my guests give me like non drink it makes me so, it makes me so happy. I never, I never thought, even though
Michelle: I never,
Laura D: the
Michelle: even though I
Laura D: like my guests would do that. But yeah, that's, that's so fitting. That's perfect.
Michelle: Awesome.
Laura D: Michelle, thank you
Michelle: Michelle,
Laura D: This has been an amazing conversation.
Laura D: As
Michelle: conversation?
Laura D: this is the first podcast recording that I have done in 2026,
Michelle: Done in 2020.
Laura D: me
Michelle: Thank setting.
Laura D: well, this has been so good,
Michelle: Thank you so much, Laura. Really loved our conversation. Went into so many different directions. Uh, lots to leave your listeners with today.
Laura D: sure.
Big thanks again to Michelle Schafer for sharing her story so openly. These conversations are such a reminder that no pivot is too messy, too late, or too unconventional. If something she said resonated, don't keep it to yourself. Share this episode with someone you know. Who needs it, and when you are ready to start your own pivot, head to www.leadintact.com for free resources or book a free 20 minute call with me.
I'm here for you.